Vitaly Naumkin: “Oriental studies are everything!”
Dear readers, we draw your attention to the first interview with Vitaly Naumkin, who is today celebrating his 80th birthday. The editorial board congratulates Vitaly Naumkin on this wonderful day and wishes him good health and many more years to come!
– Mr Naumkin, our magazine congratulates you on this day.
– Thank you!
– In 1984, Yevgeny Primakov invited you to work at the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences (IOS RAS). Since then, your life has been inextricably linked with this world-class, leading research centre specialising in the field of in-depth Asian and North African studies. From 2009 to 2015, you headed IOS RAS, and now you are the research director. How is the Institute fairing today?
– Since I left the director’s chair and became the research director, the Institute continues to develop and move forward. Unfortunately, in some institutes there are problems in the relationship between the director and the research supervisor, where it is not entirely clear how to divide responsibilities. Fortunately, we do not have that issue. We have a very friendly team.
I think the main characteristic of the Institute of Oriental Studies is consolidation. Consolidation in many ways, including in the political sense. But at the same time, we have a strong academic foundation that allows us to develop. New departments and centres are being created. After all, the IOS RAS is massive, with staff numbering about 500 people. It seems to me that one of the features of the Institute is that it is built on a vertical-horizontal principle. Vertical is the study of certain regions, territories – and quite large ones at that. This includes the Middle East, Central Asia, South Asia…
As for the horizontal principle, it is manifested in the departments and centres. Some of them develop by specialising in history, others in philosophy. One may say that we have everything because Oriental studies are everything. The Institute of Oriental Studies represents a lot of things.
Working here is not easy; the Institute is large and has a vast number of employees, and Orientalists are proud, self-respecting people – it is difficult to work with them. What has been achieved (I believe that this is also my achievement, although the foundation was, of course, laid by Yevgeny Primakov, and I consider myself his successor), that all these people can work together and not quarrel, is political, economic and human consolidation.
– Today the Institute is hosting a celebratory meeting of the academic council commemorating your birthday…
– To be honest, I did not plan any lavish events. At my age, it is better to rest (smiles). But the team literally forced me. There are a lot of guests; I have made a lot of friends over my long life. This shows that our Institute has gained a good reputation, and I have also made my modest contribution to this. The most important achievement over the years is that we managed to unite the team and avoid strife. This is very important for the promotion of Oriental studies.
The Institute is, on the one hand, developing in breadth, as new departments and centres appear, sometimes with original names. However, everything is clearly thought out and established. There are centres and departments focused on politics, and there are those that deal with exotic things. During the course of the conversation, I think I will tell you a little about my beloved Socotra.
What we are doing is pure ‘academia’, where there are no boundaries between scientists dealing with any particular issue. We even maintain contacts with scientists from countries that are unfriendly to us, though who treat us, scientists, and Russia as a whole very favourably. And there are many such people. They send us their publications on linguistics, philology, ancient history and archaeology. By the way, our archaeological missions are working in many places around the world. This is exactly what the Institute is involved in today.
– In 2001 you became a real star of Arab television, being a political commentator on the Abu Dhabi Channel. Your success exceeded all expectations: the audience was amazed by the Russian professor’s brilliant knowledge of Arabic and international issues. You were named the ‘opening of the TV season’ and for a while you became the TV presenter of the channel. Has this experience helped you to expand your understanding of modern political, social, economic and cultural processes in Asian countries, and has it been useful in your subsequent research, teaching and public political activities?
— It certainly helped. I would not say that I have become some kind of star – this is something journalists like to say. But I forgive you (smiles). I really do have a high level of Arabic. It is our traditional Russian school for learning Oriental languages, and I am proud to belong to it. And I can say without false modesty that I am not the worst Arabist.
The invitation from the Arab television channel was unexpected. At that time, the infamous US invasion of Afghanistan had begun. I was commenting on what was happening. The channel believed that since our country had some experience of ‘working’ in Afghanistan, and, besides, they knew that I had once served in the Soviet army and I had some military experience, I would be able to tell their viewers about Afghanistan better than anybody else, Afghanistan being a country they did not know anything about at that time.
I think that with my explanations about the situation and my analysis of it I managed to bring some benefit. I must say that my position and that of a large number of Arab commentators were similar in many ways. By the way, I met many Arab television stars there.
Even a five or ten-minute appearance on Arabic television in prime time, when it is watched by tens of thousands of viewers (and I was speaking Arabic and constantly had to figure out what to talk about), helped me to understand that which is unavailable to many others. The details of the job: a huge hall with tables and televisions, a direct line with correspondents working ‘in the field’ in every region of Afghanistan, in every city affected by the operation conducted by the West. Such a work format, when operational information was broadcast live, was new at the time. It was a very interesting and, in many ways, unique experience for me.
– In 2005, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, taking into account your extraordinary achievements, personally invited you to become a member of the high-level group, which was the core of a new international initiative, the Alliance of Civilisations, created to re-evaluate the influence of cultural and national differences on international relations. At the same time, the war in the Middle East and the Ukrainian crisis have demonstrated the lack of unity and peace within Muslim and Slavic civilisation. Do you think that we should focus not on intercivilisational, but on intracivilisational, intercultural interaction instead?
– Here I don’t quite agree with you. There are both intercivilisational and intracivilisational contradictions. And that is normal. If we look at any major civilisation, then there are, of course, certain contradictions. We also have different people who think differently and perceive reality in different ways, and this is not surprising. I think it is no secret that the level of consolidation in our society today is incredibly high. This should not be surprising, as we have been working towards this for a long time. Today, when we see an unprecedented level of support for our president and our country in such difficult conditions, when we are subjected to terrible pressure, including force, this is a big plus that helps us live in peace. When foreign guests come to Moscow, they are astounded that they can walk in peace, they are surprised that life is bustling around them. I think it is great that we can continue to live like this while the Special Military Operation is successfully underway (and, God willing, it shall be finished just as successfully soon).
What you are talking about means that within Islam – if we are talking about Islamic civilisation, which is the main subject of my academic studies – there are internal contradictions. There is a certain fragmentation: sects, different interpretations of Islam, figures who sometimes strongly oppose each other. But this happens everywhere. Don’t we see the same in Christianity? We do.
– It is believed that there are 73 sects within Islam, each having its own philosophy…
– The main thing is that people should not force their beliefs onto others. It seems to me that Islam shows a good practice of not using force to impose one’s faith. The way in which Russian Islam thrives in conditions of multi-confessional and multi-ethnic diversity is also our achievement.
Seeing as I worked in this high-level group, I will explain to you how the model of coexistence of different religions, confessions and religious interpretations was built, since this experience is applicable to many other states and societies: this project was started in 2005. It was led by Türkiye and Spain. We were preparing a report devoted mainly to the idea of overcoming the contradictions between Western civilisation (we were not in opposition to Islam) and the Islamic civilisation. The goal set by the head of the socialist government of Spain, Jose Zapatero, and the Turkish Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, can be summarised briefly in the following way: let us co-exist. And we managed to achieve certain results.
This group consisted of 20 people, each representing a specific region. I represented Russia and Eastern Europe, with which we did not have such acute contradictions at that time as we do today.
It should be said that the report contained bright thoughts. It was interesting for me to work with the members of this group. For example, it included the wife of the Emir of Qatar at the time, Sheikha Moza. The fact that a woman joined this group is somewhat at odds with the usual ideas about Islamic countries. Such women show that the issue of women’s rights is not so acute in their countries. Today, the Gulf states are fairly confidently showing women in political, professional and public life.
My participation in this group can also be considered a great life experience, which is accumulated over the long period that God grants us.
To be continued…
Interview by Yulia NOVITSKAYA, writer, journalist, correspondent for New Eastern Outlook
