– Poland is currently spending $ 100 million on the development of business in Ukraine. It will cost Polish taxpayers 359 800 000 zlotys and Poland also will allocate € 3 million to help the Ukrainian Army. Do you enjoy that, as a taxpayer, you will be able to help a little in building the independence of Ukraine?
Firstly, if someone has 350 million, it should consider whether to allocate them to urgent needs like feeding children who, according to various sources are malnourished in Poland. We have probably more important needs than Ukrainian enterprises. Secondly, I am almost quite sure that if the money will go to Ukraine they will be likely looted by the local officials and agencies. The level of corruption in Ukraine is now the highest. As a result, the provision of any development aid is pointless and actually there is a situation similar to those of former African States, which were provided with substantial financial support. This financial assistance never reached the recipients. The same thing is happening now in Ukraine. According to a recent public opinion poll conducted by the Kiev Institute of Sociology, it turns out that since the coming to power of the current leadership team, there was a glaring increase of corruption. So, transmitting any funds, even if we had the money is a misunderstanding, wasting the money. It would be good, instead of supporting Ukrainian entrepreneurship, support Ukrainian Poles living in the lands of Ukraine. These people receive trace support from the Polish budget and often do not even have even money for books on textbooks for children who would like to attend educational courses in Polish.
– Spanish party Podemos, postulates that Spain should leave NATO. Currently, Spain adopted draconian gag law. Therefore, is it realistic what you postulate: Polish leaving NATO?
This is the most realistic scenario when people proclaiming such a need are gaining majority in the Polish parliament. I do not think that Poland or any other NATO member could not take such a step. As for Spain, I think that if the Spanish authorities will continue such a policy a policy of censorship, elimination of virtually all activities of social movements, Podemos will soon win the election and will introduce an entirely different agendas. I hope that Podemos will be concrete and realize its pre-election announcement of resignation from membership in NATO, because it is a very important element.
NATO is an aggressive pact today, the occupier of many countries of the European Union, Europe by the US. Disgusting is fact that the Polish politicians (today we have a visit of Grzegorz Schetyna in the US) almost ask for, beg on their knees the American side for strengthening this aggressive, political and military alliance and to deploy the US troops. We are dealing with the presence of the US troops on Polish territory. This is something that does not fit in our heads. In my opinion, it is a precedent in the Polish history, in which representatives of allegedly various political parties ask and beg for strengthening the presence of occupation forces on our territory. Everything should have its limits. In this case, I think we can talk about the existence of a huge camp of bought people or people who are crazy and give such proposals to the US side. NATO is a structure completely unnecessary for us.
Europe should be as independent to create its own self-defence system, which included at least the countries of the European Union. The defence system which would really be a defence system and not an aggressive system that would provide security to all of us. The system which should be based on extensive territorial protection.
On the one hand, the system which should be based on extensive territorial defence, that is, defence of territories of our countries in the case of any aggression, on the other hand, develop the capacity to create missile defence system in Europe. We emphasize that we are the state of the European Union and would like to see the European Union as an independent entity in the international arena and not the area colonized by the United States, militarily and economically. We now have to deal with another rounds of negotiations on the economic colonization of Europe by the United States – by the transatlantic partnership agreement imposed upon us by the United States. Therefore, we are talking here quite clearly that the parties like Podemos are our ally and that we are fighting for more of Europe in Poland not, as some opponents accuse us, more Russia, Putin or some other countries. We stand firmly behind this to make Europe a European. Europe to become the independent subject on an international arena and to come back a little more to its roots. The most attractive component creating, for many years, the image of European Union has been social policy. This European model was the so-called European dream. I would like to see that Europe once again became Europe and not the offshoot to United States.
– Are you in any way related to Spanish Podemos or Greek SYRIZA?
This what is happening in Spain: an increase of support for the party Podemos and in Greece – increase of support for Syriza, or what is happening in our neighbouring countries such as Germany where we are dealing with an increase activity of the Left. This is what is happening in Slovakia. In Slovakia, the alternative discourse, open to other than just globalist, Atlantic narrative has led to the fact that Robert Fico governs second term. Chairman and founder of the Smer party, which also represents an alternative direction for most of the politicians of the European Union. Of course, we can analyze the experiences of various European countries, experiencing different movements, we are building contacts now. I’ve been a long time in a very good relationships with the representatives of the European left-wing parties or in general European party. We will also develop contacts with groups from countries outside the European Union. We have good relations with the anti-globalization movements in the United States. In contrast, as I say, transplanting experience from one country to another country’s land, in one hundred percent, is impossible. Because each country has its own characteristics. Poland is also a country that cannot be compared to countries such as Spain, where social conditions, but also cultural base, political divisions are different from those in our society. We will go our own way to create Polish political alternative.
– Khodorkovsky Open Russia, George Soros Open Society foundation, Petro Poroshenko. It seems that the most richest people in the world are very committed to democracy in Ukraine and Russia. Looking at most of the public opinion in Poland, people love narration of these oligarchs. What is the reason for this Polish worship for 1% the wealthiest people in the world?
First of all, in Poland, very intensive social engineering aimed at transforming the Polish public opinion were carried out from the beginning of political transformation. They went very far. Above all, they started from eliminating all these forms of property that were not forms of private property. Then, they discredited Polish emerging capitalism in the 90s, this capitalism of nomenclature character. Then, they were penetrating the Polish market. Transnational corporations did good business here and still do. I recall that it is market of nearly 40-million people. This is not a small country, it is an important country, in which the players’ corporate interests clash.
I will return to investment and trade partnership between the EU and the US. Well, this treaty imposed now on the EU by the US, as well as on Poland, assumes the logic of Soros and other speculators. It is assumed that a private entity, that is, for example a corporation will be able to assert their rights before the international court of arbitration against individual State. So, for example, if Polish state do not agree to any harmful to the environment, socially or otherwise unacceptable investment, then the corporate investor may challenge the State through this tribunal. There will be no way to return. You will not be able to sue the investor who has not fulfilled obligations which was accepted. We are dealing with the Anglo-Saxon way of thinking about State as an entity subordinate to corporate interests. Today’s geopolitical instrument of the corporations and speculators, such as Soros is the United States. US promotes such model of social relations, in which the corporation will stand over the State. Model in which the corporation will determine the policy of the world’s largest State and the US itself. We know that the problem also applies to American society, which saying very gently loses from the activity of these speculators and corporations. The evidence are the successive crises, another pyramid schemes and the subsequent transfer of public aid to failing banks and failing as a result of speculative bubbles. So, it is a global financial oligarchy that shapes the international order.
In my opinion, the fact that Russia and China are building different types of alliances, such as BRICKS – alliance bringing together developing economies, offer an alternative, some element of development, in which people and the State will stand over capital, which is the opposite situation of this takes place in the sphere of influence of the Anglo-Saxon in City of London or the US. That is why, it causes such a furious attack and the furious rage on the part of US policymakers, who are only just puppets in the hands of these speculators. We know that at the moment, Soros has a very extensive interests in Ukraine because he purchased a substantial package of Ukrainian government bonds, this new Ukraine, the Ukraine after the coup. So he publicly demands today that the countries of the European Union, and to a lesser extent, the United States have sent 23 billion to assist Ukraine. After that, in order to personally earn on it. And these are the links of the private business nature, absolutely not connected with the national interest of any State. It is not even the national interest of the United States. Corporate elite treats you as a puppet, which moves as pawns on the global chessboard. So what are we talking about here is the need to restore the primacy of the human and the State which has become the guardian of the man over the capital.
– George Soros says that he wants to liberate people from the tentacles of a repressive state and that is why he sends money for his foundations. Earlier in Poland, under Solidarity movement, now in Ukraine so as to build a civil society. Do you agree with that?
First of all, I do not think that civil society can be built on the money. I know that the concept of civil society it is not a new concept. Soros just repeats it. This is the legacy of many democratic thinkers, but it is not what Soros proposes. To be honest, the most unimaginable totalitarian for me now is the lack of states and our entire planet controlled by global corporations who make decisions in a completely undemocratic way. It totally does not have anything to do with any citizenship control. We know that such structures as those advocated by Mr. Soros did not have nothing to do with democracy. These people are talking openly about the creation of world government of the creation of the government which will decide over citizens of the countries in a completely undemocratic way. In my opinion, these types of foundations should be the subject to strict control. We should know, have a complete knowledge of how much funds have been allocated for the development of certain non-governmental organizations, specific structures operating in a specific country and how these funds were spent. So we would know as citizens whose interests a non-governmental organization represents. Here, Russia is a very good example: the activities of various agencies, foundations, international organizations, foundations funded from the territories of foreign countries or supranational foundations is covered by the obligation to inform, publicize information about where such a structure receives the money from. Then, we really have this civil society about which so many like Soros speak and dream.
– Probably introduction of such a law would be met with great opposition and accusations of repressive state. An example would may be what is doing Khodorkovsky’s Open Russia.
It would result in controversies and probably with wild attempts to protect this secret method of financing the organizations like this one. They would primarily lead smear campaign or campaigns, paid off generously, as they did in Russia and a number of other countries, which introduced such law. Incidentally, what is very interesting, the United States is a pioneer in this field, and the United States, taking care of its own security, many years ago, introduced stipulations about the need to publicize information about foreign measures obtained by various types of foundations, non-governmental organizations. It is rather American model. In this case, a very good idea. Russia only made use of this idea a few years ago by introducing a very similar provisions. If we talk about the need for transparency in public life, the need for clarity, who represents whose interests, in my opinion such steps, such initiatives should be taken. Furthermore, I also have a deep conviction and I postulated such a project some time ago (when I was a parliamentarian in our parliament). I have a deep conviction that the media existing in Poland, those with the largest expenditure should inform about the ownership structure they have. Then, we would know whose interests are represented by the media in the country. We would have total clarity and transparency. They should inform the public who is the real owner and who controls them.
– Currently, Poland belongs to the countries with the highest number of suicides per 100 thousand residents. This indicator is in Poland 17.5, 12.2 in Germany, and in the affected by economic crisis Spain and Greece, 7.6 and 3.5. According to official data, 80 percent of the Polish workers earn less than the amount of the minimum wage in countries such as France, the Netherlands and Ireland. The average German earns nearly 4 times more than the average Pole. So, in which direction your Party will pursue? I understand that you count on getting closer to Russia, China and the Eurasian Union?
Medium-sized countries, such as Poland should primarily even navigate between different blocks of economic integration, economic and political. Creation of the Eurasian Union is in the interest of Poland, as well as the creation of other blocks of integration that may pose potential partners for our economy. Today, Poland is in the European Union and I am convinced that the increase of support for such groups as Podemos, Syriza in Greece at some point may cause (and I hope) that the European Union will change its face. If the European Union will change its face in the direction of a social Europe, the concept of Europe independent of external players – above all, the United States. And according to its own well understood interest, open itself for cooperation with the Eurasian Union (moreover, the Russian side has proposed it). In my opinion, the place of Poland is in Europe, in European Union, in this broad continental integration block, which could arise between created by Russia, Eurasian Union and the EU (which in my opinion, requires deep reforms). There is no need to make some revolutionary redefinition in this regard. There is a need to change these structures, change policy direction of these structures to which we already belong.
– What level of support you count on in this election?
I am convinced that, by looking at the changes taking place in the Polish public opinion, more and more people are in favour of the need for a radical re-evaluation of Polish foreign policy, but also the Polish social and economic policy. A growing part of Polish society is disappointed by how the so-called political elite has been acting for many years. Luring us with all kinds of promises and not filling it. Actually, not differing from each other. Because if you look at the parliament today, we have to deal with one big party that is divided into fractions. In fundamental issues, this establishment party is not different. Inside, the differences are minor, usually it comes rather to personal than program disputes. I am convinced that the new proposal, taking into account what are the ripples of the proposal on the internet, but also during various meetings, may be tempted to exceed the electoral threshold in the next parliamentary elections. This is a realistic plan. I am convinced that it would be a great success, if a representative of such formation, the representatives of the Change would get to the Polish parliament. Even, if they wouldn’t affect the formation of the government or the political reality in the beginning, they will affect the shape of the debate and will be the voice of those who at this point are completely voiceless.
Konrad Stachnio is an independent Poland based journalist, he hosted a number of radio and TV programs for the Polish edition of Prison Planet, exclusively for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook”.
